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Author Topic: Gas and Performance  (Read 1299 times)
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fool68
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« on: June 09, 2006, 09:31:35 AM »

Hey all, we've danced around this topic a couple times.

I started driving Jester the same week that the Ethanol conversions were made by the local gas stations, so I'm not sure if the fuel blend is a factor, but I've noticed that the first couple minutes after starting are very rough (hesitations), and that acceleration is very mushy - especially on hotter days.  I typically let the car idle for a minute or so before driving, revving the engine until I'm happy that the hesitations have worked themselves out.  Yesterday, while I was getting my act together, I forgot to rev the engine and it actually stalled out while it was idling.

I'm wonderring if the Ethanol blend is a variable that anybody's noticed.  

Also, I'm wonderring if anybody's noticed any station-to-station variability.  I'm tracking my milage along with where I bougt my fuel.  I'll post my exact data later (and I don't have enough to be statistically accurate), but I've noticed poorer performance with Shell 93 (rough idling, lower milage).  Pretty good performance with Sunoco 93 and (believe it or not) WAWA "mystery gas" 93.  BP 93 was about middle of the road.  

Again, most of my observations were made during the break in period (I've only go 2k miles on the car), but my driving habits are pretty consistent (daily commutes, no long distance road trips yet).  I'm just wonderring what more seasoned MINI veterans are seeing.
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dark06mcs
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2006, 09:44:28 AM »

not that i'm any more seasoned than you sean but i've noticed increased mileage from merlin.  i might be driving slightly more gingerly during the normal times, but even with autocrosses, and runs i'm closer to 28-29mpg instead of the 25-26mpg from the very beginning...

anyone else?
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Capt_BJ
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2006, 09:48:46 AM »

I have noticed a bit more morning stumble since the eth'l blends came around unfortunately.  I'm hoping that it will eventually go away cuz:

Note that the computer in the car 'learns' - a new car will take some time to learn your style and adjust the various system variables accordingly.  And, as you modify the car or change your fuel or style it will also need time to learn this change.  Some say that after making a significant mod you should reset the ECU so it can learn from scratch.  AND, if you go for service and they flash your ECU to upgrade the software...well you start over there too.....

and

as much as the gas distributor can matter (see old threads on NAM or MINI2 on BMW recomended gas....) the individual station you use can also matter.  Some stations have nice clean storage tanks....some have old dirty ones.....some can have a bit of water in there...

I like a station that moves a lot of gas ... keeps any condensation from getting in there and hopefully I'm not pullling from the bottom of the tank cuz they keep 'em full.

I use Shell about 90% ++ of the time in both my 02S and my 79.  And if you thing a MINI is sens'tive to gas quality you should be around that 1275 when it gets low octane! backfire and run-on city....knock knock knock...

Lastly I'll relate a story from someone who had a pulley put on at the Dragon.  At first his milage went way down...and last week he mentioned that when on a trip, on cruise control, his MPG went WAY UP.  "You know what BJ?  Putting your foot in it really hurts your mpg   002 .  I do much better at steady speeds and mild acceleration."
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2nd MINI
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2006, 10:00:25 AM »

Ah, the dreaded stumble.  We with the older cars  dealt with that in spades on the first version of the Seimans engine management software.  Two factors contributed:

1. Though they did high and low temp tests, they didn't extensively test the machine in the U.S. which simply has a different climate from Europe.  The software wasn't ready for it.  They fixed this in later software.

2.  During the first acceleration after startup, the system is doing a bunch of reality vs. paradigm comparisons and setting itself to match weather and current engine performance.  They smoothed-up the whole process in later software.  However, changes such as sudden and large  temperatures swings (a Tidewater favorite) and fuel blending WILL still toss first acceleration of the day performance into a cocked hat for a while until the system gets used to them.  This is especially true of fuel formulation.  Paul, the service foreman at CF, gave me a heads-up that he expected to hear some complaints about this hesitation as the cars got used to the ethanol blend.  He suggested I give mine a few weeks before I consider it settled in.

I've seen my mileage drop a couple of points with the ethanol blend.

Hope this helps a wee bit,

Bob
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fool68
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2006, 10:28:10 AM »

Sort of the responses I expected based on my contiued reading on NAM.  Still, I like hearing from the friends and neighbors vice the faceless masses.

Overall, my best tank got about 29 MPG (that was the WAWA stuff), and the worst was about 26 on a tank of Shell.  These are based on my calcs (miles on the tank over gallons pumped) I'm running another tank of Shell (both from the station on Battlefield and Cedar).  Based on the computer estimates, this tank is running a little better, but I haven't had my weekend mileage killer drives around town.

Overall, I've also noticed that the MPG as calculated by the computer is about 1 mpg higher than my calcuated by hand.  I can't decide which element of the computer I trust less - it's mpg calc or the odometer.  I posted earlier that I think I get "1.05 miles to the mile".  I don't complain because I'll get more miles out of the car than the odometer reads, but I know it affects my hand calcs.  Actually... (having just tapped on my calculator) I guess that makes the computer MPG calc more accurate  :roll:
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alvarospatchez
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2006, 12:20:56 PM »

I would not recommend revving the engine when it is idoling rough. Give the computer some time, the cold start mode of the engine will adjust for the fuels after a couple of tanks. I noticed a drop in fuel mileage as well. Mine still does not run like it did before.  :(  I have had better luck with exxon fuels.
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we3
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2006, 12:37:12 PM »

I noticed Nigel was very sluggish excelerating from a stoplight and didn't regain his usual zip until this past week. It took about 3 tankfuls of the new stuff to work through his system. He is only 3 months old and I just passed the 3000 mi. mark.
Doreen
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2006, 12:50:22 PM »

Oh, yea, that's another thing Paul said:  If your engine idles roughly and you touch the gas to correct it, the computer may not have time to register it as a problem and adjust the program to compensate.  If it idles roughy, let it recover on its own and it will learn to deal with the issue.  If it can't adjust over time, it might be a physical problem or a sign of something that might be need to be dealt with by updated software.

I know it goes against everything we learned ("Don't let it lug itself.  Put your heel on the pedal and give it a little help") but these are smart cars and it's a brave new world.

Bob
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fool68
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2006, 02:15:21 PM »

Quote from: "2nd MINI"
these are smart cars and it's a brave new world.

Ahhh, but only as smart as the guys who program them   002



(hey... everybody like my new avatar?)
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obehave
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2006, 04:01:44 PM »

Quote from: "alvarospatchez"
I would not recommend revving the engine when it is idoling rough. Give the computer some time, the cold start mode of the engine will adjust for the fuels after a couple of tanks. I noticed a drop in fuel mileage as well. Mine still does not run like it did before.  :(  I have had better luck with exxon fuels.


Have to agree with the Exxon statement.
I usually run 7-11 Citgo stuff but I can now get Exxon cheaper.
I do still get the AM stumble ( Not like the old days though eh Bob?? ) but it's better.

Here's an odd one though.

I've logged just about every tank I've filled for almost 4 years so I have a good idea of my mileage.
On my way to the Dragon I ran a bottle of Lucas injector cleaner. I've been getting better mileage ever since. Went from 24.5 avg to just shy of 26. Very cool. Lucas has always made good stuff but this is the first I've used their injector cleaner.
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Capt_BJ
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2006, 05:36:46 PM »

Lucas makes good stuff?

You don't see THAT statement on a British car page very often  119
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obehave
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2006, 10:56:41 PM »

Quote from: "Capt_BJ"
Lucas makes good stuff?

You don't see THAT statement on a British car page very often  119

 :lol:

This Lucas  not  that Lucas 002
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